The New War Domain

[Asinjin]

I thought the Great Cleave was limited to your number of AoO, in which case giving it to the cleric may not help, since their Dex could be low.  But upon review, it doesn't say Great Cleave uses up AoO.  I thought it did.  Any thoughts on that?

[whitesword]

I thought the Great Cleave was limited to your number of AoO, in which case giving it to the cleric may not help, since their Dex could be low.  But upon review, it doesn't say Great Cleave uses up AoO.  I thought it did.  Any thoughts on that?

That's where I thought you were going. Cleave attacks are not AoO. We went through that when we were working on the Bladelord before the summer Suian. It's (was) on the WoC QA site.

[Asinjin]

So then, I suppose we just give the Cleave and Great Cleave without needing the prereq's.

[Windblade]

So then, I suppose we just give the Cleave and Great Cleave without needing the prereq's.

I think giving cleave and great cleave for free might be too much.   However, having trouble thinking of a way to tweak it to make it less powerful with the same overall feel.

[whitesword]

I think giving cleave and great cleave for free might be too much.   However, having trouble thinking of a way to tweak it to make it less powerful with the same overall feel.

I considered the following options: power attack and cleave or C and GC with it only applying when using the Power's favored weapon.

I went with C and GC because they are situational, i.e. can only be used against multiple enemies, vs PA which can be used all the time.

[Windblade]

So then, I suppose we just give the Cleave and Great Cleave without needing the prereq's.

Maybe only when using the deities favored weapon.  Which is a minor penalty because most clerics use that anyway.  Which deities get war? That should help us decide.

[Asinjin]

Dedestroyt - S Great Sword
Han~Sui - Katana
Stasis (possibly) - Bastard Sword

Quasi deities

Kallark and ALarault

[Windblade]

I think only being used with deities favored weapon would be a good penalty.  However,   I am still worried that this might be too powerful.  Maybe others can weigh in on it and think of weighs to down power it a bit.

[Asinjin]

What about keeping the number limitation that I had put in?

[Windblade]

Maybe we put your # limitation in and then have it be used by any weapon.

[whitesword]

It's only a standard feat. If you don't want to give them both give them PA and C instead. Giving them the limited number forces them to take GC later for basically no value except as a prerequisite for other feats. Can anyone think of an occasion where a character got more than three extra cleave attacks in one round? You just can't be surrounded by that many enemies

[Asinjin]

There are instances: reach weapon, larger than opponents; but they are not common.  I don't assume that with Cleave / ~Great Cleave~ for free they would go down that feat tree.  I think its a good ability unless that happen to want to go heavy fighting and take PA and want feats beyond GC, which I think will be a significant minority of clerics.

[Windblade]

There are instances: reach weapon, larger than opponents; but they are not common.  I don't assume that with Cleave / ~Great Cleave~ for free they would go down that feat tree.  I think its a good ability unless that happen to want to go heavy fighting and take PA and want feats beyond GC, which I think will be a significant minority of clerics.

That is what I was thinking too.

[whitesword]

Except these are clerics of war. But more importantly why modify one of the basic feats? If two feats for free at first level is too much give them Cleave and a skill bonus.

[Asinjin]

I think that even among clerics of War, it would be a small minority that go down that feat tree.  With Divine feats being useful and a lack of feats in general.

We could move to Cleave and a skill bonus, but I think the modified Great Cleave is neater than a skill bonus.