Habololy Forum
Habololy Concepts => Domain => Topic started by: Asinjin on February 14, 2012, 11:39:12 PM
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For Falan and Arsenal. Discuss and create.
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Hero's thoughts for the domain:
Innovation Domain
Granted Power: You can call upon your divine influence to experience a moment of great insight as a supernatural ability. Once per day, you gain an enhancement bonus to Intelligence equal to your divine caster level for 1 round. Activating the power is a free action.
1. Divine Insight (SpC)
2. Fox's Cunning
3. Know Opponent (SpC)
4. Divination
5. Fabricate
6. Fox's Cunning, Mass
7. Limited Wish
8.
9.
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What practical effect will the one round bonus to Intelligence have?
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Boost to INT based skill checks. Crafting. Search. Knowledge.
Clerics with psion or wizard levels could boost the DC's of their powers/spells.
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Same for Cleric/Tinkers.
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It would not work for Craft or Design checks, as they take place over the course of hours if not days. A one round boost would not allow for a bonus on those checks.
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Maybe make a permanent bonus to design, craft check and maybe give some sort of cross class skills like the trickery domain. Maybe they can use craft clicker as a class skill.
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Good thought; Craft (Clicker) and Tinkering as class skills.
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Also maybe they can get those 2 plus some amount of tinkering knowledge skill of there choice. I not sure what number of tinkering knowledge skill though. I would say anywhere from 1-3. That would really help me build my character. I would be able to increase tinkering knowledge as I raised cleric level and not have all those left over points and not know what to do with them.
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It would not work for Craft or Design checks, as they take place over the course of hours if not days. A one round boost would not allow for a bonus on those checks.
While design and craft checks take place over an extended period of time, it only takes a moment to have a good idea that will influence the process. Consider it a moment of clarity. Or divine insight. Regardless of what you call it, my intent in coming up with the granted ability was to allow it for those checks. I think that makes more sense than letting it insanely boost a spell DC, which does not align with the aspect of "innovation".
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I think, for that to work, we should allow them to take three Knowledge skills as class skills and then give them a bonus of +4 to each of those three.
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I think what we will do is that the ability grants three of the following as class skills, and then grants a +4 insight bonus to each of those three: Craft (any), Knowledge (any), Tinkering. That way, a wizard could take this and make good use of it by selecting Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (necrology), Craft (something)
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Good idea, but I think the bonus should scale with cleric level.
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I believe +4 is enough I would even consider doing less of a plus. Right now this is a little more powerful then the trickery domain. Although I know some domain abilities are more powerful then this. That is the trickiest part about doing this is that we don't really have a template for what a domain ability should be like since even the WotC made ones vary in power. Also I wanted to use this when I take my next level which I just got so can we nail down this ability before Tuesday. I think the 3 skills with the +4 works.
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We won't be switching anything over until we have the whole project locked down. Piecemeal conversion will get messy.
Even if we were to scale it with level, the plus wouldn't go above 5. I would make it +1 and then an additional +1 per five levels.
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Also since we have already put limited wish as an ability is there any reason that 9th should be wish other then that is pretty powerful. Although as we said earlier the domain ability isn't particular powerful so better spells could make up for that.
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I am not a fan of the limited wish or wish spells as domains spells. Since they can be used to cast anything, it seems like a cop out.
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Yeah I agree. However, I have looked through books and using the search function on DnD tools and there is really nothing to use. Any spell of high level are just a stretch to say that it is innovation because the effects that we associated with that such as insight bonus to skills and increased intelligence are all done by lower level spells but I totally understand not wanting to use wish.
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Yeah I agree. However, I have looked through books and using the search function on DnD tools and there is really nothing to use. Any spell of high level are just a stretch to say that it is innovation because the effects that we associated with that such as insight bonus to skills and increased intelligence are all done by lower level spells but I totally understand not wanting to use wish.
Having the same issue with Vision domain.
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I am not a fan of the limited wish or wish spells as domains spells. Since they can be used to cast anything, it seems like a cop out.
limited
I picked limited wish for that exact reason. The utility of that spell is only limited by the caster's innovation.
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How about http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/fantastic-machine--1212/ (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/fantastic-machine--1212/) and http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/greater-fantastic-machine--1213/ (http://dndtools.eu/spells/forgotten-realms-campaign-setting--19/greater-fantastic-machine--1213/) for levels 6 and 9.
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Fantastic Machine makes the domain leans toward Innovation=tinkering. I thought it was more along the lines of Innovation=ingenuity.
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Just throwing it out there, I will let you guys make the final decision.
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I like those spells vs the wish spells. They are in the spell compendium.
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I don't like that they are Illusion spells. If they were conjuration then they would work better. Maybe we can just make them conjuration.
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Assuming we are talking about the same spells they are listed as Conjuration in the Spell Compendium.
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They are Illusion in the Forgotten Realms book, but the SC post dates that, so they are Conjuration. That being the case, I think they are a good fit.
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They give the domain a technology bias. If that's what you're aiming for fine. But I consider innovation to be the generation of new ideas, which is not necessarily technology.
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1. Divine Insight (SpC)
2. Fox's Cunning OR Mechanus Mind (maybe move to 3rd)
3.
4.
5. Owl's Insight
6. Fantastic Machine OR Wall of Gears (maybe move to 7th)
7.
8.
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
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1. Divine Insight (SpC)
2. Fox's Cunning OR Mechanus Mind (maybe move to 3rd)
3.
4.
5. Owl's Insight
6. Fantastic Machine OR Wall of Gears (maybe move to 7th)
7.
8.
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
1. Divine Insight
2. Fox Cunning
3.
4. Fabricate
5.
6. Wall of Gears
7.
8.
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
When I have notice the domains they typically move spells to a lower level to show that you have such mastery that you can cast these spells at lower level. I don't think they usually move a spell to a higher slot or at least I haven't noticed that so I woulnd't move the 6th level spell to a 7th level slot or a 2nd to a 3rd.
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox Cunning
3.
4. Fabricate
5.
6. Wall of Gears
7.
8.
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
When I have notice the domains they typically move spells to a lower level to show that you have such mastery that you can cast these spells at lower level. I don't think they usually move a spell to a higher slot or at least I haven't noticed that so I woulnd't move the 6th level spell to a 7th level slot or a 2nd to a 3rd.
Arcane spells are sometimes moved up a level. I found several examples in my work. Cleric spells are frequently moved down a level.
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That makes sense. I didn't think to check to see if they were arcane. If they are arcane then dismiss my comments.
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I still don't like giving this domain a technology flavor. My original concept that started this whole thing was for a domain geared towards the development of new ideas. I vote no "machine" spells. Or wall of gears.
I'm going to keep posting this opinion until someone acknowledges it.
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I have no objection provided there is something better than Wish and Miracle as options. To me they are the opposite of innovation.
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I note your comment Hero, but we need something better before we replace them.
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I agree with you too here but as the others said there is nothing better. Althought I do agree with hero to have limited wish on there.
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I think the "wish" spells are the epitome of innovation. The effect is only limited by your creativity, and could be used to solve problems in all sorts of innovative ways.
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox Cunning
3. ???
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Fantastic Machine
7. Limited Wish
8. Brain Spider (Complete Divine)
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
Thoughts?
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How about the Mechanus Mind you posted in the first list?
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It okay but weak. It is a +4 to Will saves, +2 to Int based skills and -2 to Cha based skills for 1 min / level.
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It okay but weak. It is a +4 to Will saves, +2 to Int based skills and -2 to Cha based skills for 1 min / level.
This doesn't seem like it has anything to do with innovation.
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This doesn't seem like it has anything to do with innovation.
Agreed
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Not so sure about Brain Spider and I still don't like the Machine spells. I equate this domain with ingenuity and creativity. My original thought for the 8 ad 9 spots were:
8th: Polymorph Any Object
9th: Time Stop
Because having the ability to create extra time and the ability to turn one thing into anything else you can come up with seem fit for a cleric dedicated to creativity.
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox Cunning
3. ???
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Fantastic Machine
7. Limited Wish
8. Polymorph Any Object
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
Did we have a granted power yet?
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The granted power is somewhere back on the first page or 2. It is the one that gives skill and some sort of bonus based on your wisdom to skills.
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I have this vague recollection of a spell (or maybe psionic power?) that allowed the caster to preview the results of his actions in the next round and decide whether he still wants to go through with it. That sound like something that actually exists? Would make a good spell to ad to this domain.
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I remember that spell too. I think it is better suited for prophecy or time.
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox Cunning
3. ???
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Fantastic Machine
7. Limited Wish
8. Polymorph Any Object
9. Greater Fantastic Machine
Did we have a granted power yet?
I think we should do mass fox's cunning over fantastic machine.
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What about Dream Travel for the 9th level spot. It is an 8th level arcane spell that lets you travel to the plane of dreams. Which I would image is a place that would work well for coming up with innovative ideas.
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What about glibness for 3rd level you gain a +30 bluff check and your lies cannot be detected. This would work well with getting your innovative ideas to the market to sell. I think that would make sense in the innovation domain.
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Lemond's secret chest would work well in the 5th level slot to hide design scrolls and other innovative ideas from others.
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Some goods thoughts. How about Sculpt Sounds for 3rd level; create and alter sound.
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Some goods thoughts. How about Sculpt Sounds for 3rd level; create and alter sound.
I personally like glibness better. I really like the idea of marketing your creations.
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Servant Horde (2d6 unseen servants)?
Shrink Item?
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What level is Servant Horde? Did you look through eberron? With all the steampunk type stuff in there I would think they would have some good spells for this one?
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Both of those spells are 3rd level.
Nothing in Eberron that fits. They have a lot of construct spells.
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I think we should do mass fox's cunning over fantastic machine.
I agree, and was actually going to post that same suggestion.
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I remember that spell too. I think it is better suited for prophecy or time.
I thought previewing the results of your decisions would be a good way to mechanically represent an innovative idea...try something really out of the box, and see how it pans out; if it doesn't work then you redo with something different. Like hitting the undo button. I think it has a great innovation feel.
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox's Cunning
3. Servant Horde
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Mass Fox's Cunning
7. Limited Wish
8. Polymorph Any Object
9. Wish
This is what we have for now.
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What about Dream Travel for the 9th level spot. It is an 8th level arcane spell that lets you travel to the plane of dreams. Which I would image is a place that would work well for coming up with innovative ideas.
That's not bad, I like it better than wish.
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I don't quite get the reasoning behind servant horde?
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To help you be innovative?
Grasping here.
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I understand. My idea was for glibness was also thinking outside the box. Maybe we can get a vote between glibness and servant horde. I vote for glibness. Like I said I just really like the idea of having a good ability that helps sell your innovative ideas to people and it seems strange to me to summon mindless beings that serve you in an innovation domain.
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I think we should vote on the 3rd level spell before this gets pushed too far down the list as we move our focus to tyragatore
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That spell I mentioned last night that conjures an unseen servant that can make craft checks is in Races of Eberron:
Cleric 2...Unseen Crafter: Invisible force obeys your command and can use the Craft skill.
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How about #3 = Glimpse of Truth (BoVD): You get an answer to a yes-or-no question. We would have to ignore the Evil descriptor and the drug component.
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that also sounds like a good one.
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I don't like having to ignore and change a spell in order to use it.
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In this case it doesn't seem any different to limiting a spell to one type of elemental. However, I understand you concern so what ever you think. If not we should just vote on glibness and servant horde
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox's Cunning
3. Unseen Crafter
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Mass Fox's Cunning
7. Limited Wish
8. Polymorph Any Object
9. Wish
I don't have any other good ideas here. Any more thoughts?
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what is unseen crafter?
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I thought we were doing dream travel for 9th?
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1. Divine Insight
2. Fox's Cunning
3. Unseen Crafter
4. Fabricate
5. Owl's Insight
6. Mass Fox's Cunning
7. Limited Wish
8. Polymorph Any Object
9. Dream Travel
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I like that list.
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Unless anyone has any objections, I will lock this tomorrow.
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What did we decide on for an ability?
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Three skills of your choice from the following list as class skills: Craft (any), Knowledge (any), Tinkering
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I also thought there was a + to certain checks too?
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You are correct.