Habololy Forum
Habololy Books => Guide to Rangers => Topic started by: Asinjin on December 09, 2016, 11:33:25 AM
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Here is the current Habololian List:
Aberration Aboleth, Cloaker, Roper
Animals Dog, Horse, Bear, Boar, Cat
Birds Roc, Falcon, Giant Eagle
Beasts Griffon, Wyvern, Bulette, Pegasus
Constructs Golems
Demi-Human* Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Gree, Nipit
Dragon* Red, White, Gold, Green, Blue
Giant* Fire, Frost, Ogre, Ettin, Formian
Human* Horarian, Common, Barbarian
Humanoid* Orc, Bugbear, Goblin, Vishtoo
Insects Giant Wasp, Ants, Ankheg
Lizardfolk* Vass, Kobald, Troglodyte, Sandoo
Lycanthrope Werewolf, Werebear, Wererat
Magical Beasts Doppleganger, Umber Hulk
Oozes Puddings, Oozes, Slimes
Organization* Cult, Guilds, Prestige Classes
Outsider* Fire, Air, Good, Evil, Lawful
Sea Creatures Shark, Octopus, Dolphin, Squid
Spiders Drider, Ettercap, Giant Spiders
Undead(Corporeal) Skeleton, Vampire, Zombie
Undead(Incorpor) Ghost, Shadow, Spectre
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An asterisk means that you have to pick one from the list, no asterisk means you get the whole category.
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Clearly, you have to pick an organization, so that one stays.
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Same is true of Demi-human.
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Lizardfolk?
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The giant list, we have already decided that Cloud and Storm will be grouped together.
Other groupings?
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The giant list, we have already decided that Cloud and Storm will be grouped together.
Other groupings?
Any chance we could group other giant types with Ettin's or just multiple giant types in general? I only ask because, after our discussion last night and reviewing the Giant Killer class, it seems underpowered that a full 10th level Giant Killer would only have 4 types of Giants he would be effective against (1 type as a pre-req to the class and 3 more through 10 levels of the prestige class).
Throwing it out there to get everyone's opinion.
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For giants, here is a list (probably not complete yet) of creatures with the giant type on Habololy. Here is a link to a compiled list:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?226311-All-the-Different-Types-of-Giant
- Cloud Giant
- Storm Giant
- Frost Giant
- Fire Giant
- Hill Giant
- Stone Giant
- Ettin
- Troll (all types that exist, which is probably only 5 on the big list)
- Firbolg
- Spriggan
- Ogre (all types that exist, which is probably only 3 on the big list)
- Fomorian
- Voadkyn
- Desert Giant
- Fog Giant
- Jungle Giant
- Fensir
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Here are some possible groupings:
- Cloud and Storm Giant (large giants that live in the sky)
- Voadkyn and Firbolg (good giants that have a fey connection)
- Frost Giant and Fog Giants (closest one that seems to fit with Frost)
- Fire Giant and Desert Giants (closest one that fits with Fire)
- Hill Giant and Ogres
- Stone Giant
- Trolls
- Jungle Giant
- Ettin
- Fomorian and Spriggan (evil fey tainted giants)
Thoughts?
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I would move troll out of the giant category all together and maybe put ettin, with hill giant, ogres and maybe throw in stone giant also. It doesn't matter that there are 4 in a group especially when you look at magical beast which has a ton monsters.
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Trolls move to magical beasts?
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No I wasn't saying move troll to magical beast I was just saying out of the giant maybe an abberration. I was just saying I wouldn't worry about how big a category is and I was using magical beast as an example.
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I understood, I just wasn't sure where to move it and made a suggestion.
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Here are some possible groupings:
- Cloud and Storm Giant (large giants that live in the sky)
- Voadkyn and Firbolg (good giants that have a fey connection)
- Frost Giant and Fog Giants (closest one that seems to fit with Frost)
- Fire Giant and Desert Giants (closest one that fits with Fire)
- Hill Giant and Ogres
- Stone Giant
- Trolls
- Jungle Giant
- Ettin
- Fomorian and Spriggan (evil fey tainted giants)
Thoughts?
What's the motivation for breaking down favored enemy(giants) into that many subcategories? WotC just has them as 1. Maybe we're over-complicating? I think this is a slippery slope - animals are a single category, but tigers aren't very similar to bears. Same issue with Aberrations, magical beasts, lycanthropes...
If you want to split them up, how about categorizing based on size?
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What's the motivation for breaking down favored enemy(giants) into that many subcategories? WotC just has them as 1. Maybe we're over-complicating? I think this is a slippery slope - animals are a single category, but tigers aren't very similar to bears. Same issue with Aberrations, magical beasts, lycanthropes...
If you want to split them up, how about categorizing based on size?
The discussion came up because I had some questions regarding the effectiveness of the Giant Killer class. It feels weak for a character who specializes in combat against giants to only be effective versus a small number of them over the course of a ten level career. You need one type of giant as a favored enemy as a prerequisite for the class and you get three more types of giant through 10 levels. To be able to use your abilities against four types of giants after all that training seems a little off.
Ideally, giants wouldn't be split up at all. I'd like to see the prerequisites become simply Favored Enemy (Giants), then every time the Giant Killer gains the flavored enemy ability, he has to increase the bonus versus giants by +2 and can put the other +2 into another favored enemy he already has or a new favored enemy as per the normal Ranger ability. This way, the Giant Killer would have an additional +6 versus all giants after the final favored enemy increase at 9th level in the prestige class.
Rangers are a little underpowered to begin with. To further dilute their abilities by separating their favored enemies as part of a specialist class is tough. What does everyone else think?
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What's the motivation for breaking down favored enemy(giants) into that many subcategories? WotC just has them as 1. Maybe we're over-complicating? I think this is a slippery slope - animals are a single category, but tigers aren't very similar to bears. Same issue with Aberrations, magical beasts, lycanthropes...
If you want to split them up, how about categorizing based on size?
I have a list of categories for favored enemies on Habololy in the ranger handbook. It is notably different from the D20 3.5 list.
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The discussion came up because I had some questions regarding the effectiveness of the Giant Killer class. It feels weak for a character who specializes in combat against giants to only be effective versus a small number of them over the course of a ten level career. You need one type of giant as a favored enemy as a prerequisite for the class and you get three more types of giant through 10 levels. To be able to use your abilities against four types of giants after all that training seems a little off.
Ideally, giants wouldn't be split up at all. I'd like to see the prerequisites become simply Favored Enemy (Giants), then every time the Giant Killer gains the flavored enemy ability, he has to increase the bonus versus giants by +2 and can put the other +2 into another favored enemy he already has or a new favored enemy as per the normal Ranger ability. This way, the Giant Killer would have an additional +6 versus all giants after the final favored enemy increase at 9th level in the prestige class.
Rangers are a little underpowered to begin with. To further dilute their abilities by separating their favored enemies as part of a specialist class is tough. What does everyone else think?
I agree. Ideally we should just have them split up like WotC did but DM didn't like it and created one for Habololy. I think it under powers ranger a bit and I havent played one because of it and it is one of my favorite classes. So this conversation started with the players trying to bring it back closer to where WotC had it.
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I agree. Ideally we should just have them split up like WotC did but DM didn't like it and created one for Habololy. I think it under powers ranger a bit and I havent played one because of it and it is one of my favorite classes. So this conversation started with the players trying to bring it back closer to where WotC had it.
The amount it underpowers it is small. Depending on the enemies you take, it is exactly the same. Any race, any outsider, construct, animal, and about half of the categories are the same as WotC.
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How about his for giants:
- Ogre-kin (all types of Ogres and Ettin)
- Fey touched Giants (Voadkyn, Fomorian, Firbolg, Spriggan)
- Earth and Fire Giants (Fire, Hill, Stone, Desert)
- Water and Air Giants (Storm, Cloud, Fog, Sea Giant [if any still exist])
- Frost Giants (there are more of them than most of the rest combined)
That leaves Jungle giants
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How about his for giants:
- Ogre-kin (all types of Ogres and Ettin)
- Fey touched Giants (Voadkyn, Fomorian, Firbolg, Spriggan)
- Earth and Fire Giants (Fire, Hill, Stone, Desert)
- Water and Air Giants (Storm, Cloud, Fog, Sea Giant [if any still exist])
- Frost Giants (there are more of them than most of the rest combined)
That leaves Jungle giants
This seems a bit more balanced. Would it be reasonable to throw Jungle Giants in with Earth and Fire or do they warrant a separate category?
Are trolls still being considered giants or did they get moved to something else? If still considered giants, would it make sense to throw them in with Ogre-kin?
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This seems a bit more balanced. Would it be reasonable to throw Jungle Giants in with Earth and Fire or do they warrant a separate category?
Are trolls still being considered giants or did they get moved to something else? If still considered giants, would it make sense to throw them in with Ogre-kin?
Might make sense to combine Trolls and Jungle.
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How about his for giants:
- Ogre-kin (all types of Ogres and Ettin)
- Fey touched Giants (Voadkyn, Fomorian, Firbolg, Spriggan)
- Earth and Fire Giants (Fire, Hill, Stone, Desert)
- Water and Air Giants (Storm, Cloud, Fog, Sea Giant [if any still exist])
- Frost Giants (there are more of them than most of the rest combined)
That leaves Jungle giants
This does seem better and Frost Giants are almost a major race on your planet so it make sense to separate them out.
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Are there any other categories that anyone has an issue with?
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Where do Dusk Giants fall into?
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Good catch, they would go into Fey-touched Giants.
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So, what's your thoughts on making Trolls and Jungle Giants another category? Should we do that or just add them into something else on your list. I think it's shaping up nicely at this point. Should be able to have this resolved before game time on Thursday night.
- Ogre-kin (all types of Ogres and Ettin)
- Fey touched Giants (Voadkyn, Fomorian, Firbolg, Spriggan, Dusk Giants)
- Earth and Fire Giants (Fire, Hill, Stone, Desert)
- Water and Air Giants (Storm, Cloud, Fog, Sea Giant [if any still exist])
- Frost Giants (there are more of them than most of the rest combined)
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I am thinking trolls will be moved to aberrations or magical beasts. Jungle Giants will have to join one of those groups.
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I am thinking trolls will be moved to aberrations or magical beasts. Jungle Giants will have to join one of those groups.
So, I guess either Ogre-kin or the Earth and Fire group. Thoughts?
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The amount it underpowers it is small. Depending on the enemies you take, it is exactly the same. Any race, any outsider, construct, animal, and about half of the categories are the same as WotC.
Given how powerful many of the Habololy prestige classes are I think it just balances the ranger and gives them a little more character. Rangers should be intimately familiar with their home turf and it's native beasts etc. If anything the categories are overbroad.
If I were doing this from scratch I'd give rangers a list based on where they trained (not type grous) and only allow them to go to another list at higher level.
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How about his for giants:
- Ogre-kin (all types of Ogres and Ettin)
- Fey touched Giants (Voadkyn, Fomorian, Firbolg, Spriggan)
- Earth and Fire Giants (Fire, Hill, Stone, Desert)
- Water and Air Giants (Storm, Cloud, Fog, Sea Giant [if any still exist])
- Frost Giants (there are more of them than most of the rest combined)
That leaves Jungle giants
I like this list and would move trolls to aberrations.
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I like this list and would move trolls to aberrations.
It seems we have a winning list, with the only question as to where to put Jungle Giants.