Favored Enemy List - Giants

[Asinjin]

Here is the current Habololian List:

Aberration   Aboleth, Cloaker, Roper

Animals   Dog, Horse, Bear, Boar, Cat

Birds   Roc, Falcon, Giant Eagle

Beasts   Griffon, Wyvern, Bulette, Pegasus

Constructs   Golems

Demi-Human*   Dwarf, Elf, Gnome, Gree, Nipit

Dragon*   Red, White, Gold, Green, Blue

Giant*   Fire, Frost, Ogre, Ettin, Formian

Human*   Horarian, Common, Barbarian

Humanoid*   Orc, Bugbear, Goblin, Vishtoo

Insects   Giant Wasp, Ants, Ankheg

Lizardfolk*   Vass, Kobald, Troglodyte, Sandoo

Lycanthrope   Werewolf, Werebear, Wererat

Magical Beasts   Doppleganger, Umber Hulk

Oozes   Puddings, Oozes, Slimes

Organization*   Cult, Guilds, Prestige Classes

Outsider*   Fire, Air, Good, Evil, Lawful

Sea Creatures   Shark, Octopus, Dolphin, Squid

Spiders   Drider, Ettercap, Giant Spiders

Undead(Corporeal)   Skeleton, Vampire, Zombie

Undead(Incorpor)   Ghost, Shadow, Spectre

[Asinjin]

An asterisk means that you have to pick one from the list, no asterisk means you get the whole category.

[Asinjin]

Clearly, you have to pick an organization, so that one stays.

[Asinjin]

Same is true of Demi-human.

[Asinjin]

Lizardfolk?

[Asinjin]

The giant list, we have already decided that Cloud and Storm will be grouped together.

Other groupings?

[Malchia]

The giant list, we have already decided that Cloud and Storm will be grouped together.

Other groupings?

Any chance we could group other giant types with Ettin's or just multiple giant types in general?  I only ask because, after our discussion last night and reviewing the Giant Killer class, it seems underpowered that a full 10th level Giant Killer would only have 4 types of Giants he would be effective against (1 type as a pre-req to the class and 3 more through 10 levels of the prestige class). 

Throwing it out there to get everyone's opinion.       

[Asinjin]

For giants, here is a list (probably not complete yet) of creatures with the giant type on Habololy.  Here is a link to a compiled list:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?226311-All-the-Different-Types-of-Giant

- Cloud Giant
- Storm Giant
- Frost Giant
- Fire Giant
- Hill Giant
- Stone Giant
- Ettin
- Troll (all types that exist, which is probably only 5 on the big list)
- Firbolg
- Spriggan
- Ogre (all types that exist, which is probably only 3 on the big list)
- Fomorian
- Voadkyn
- Desert Giant
- Fog Giant
- Jungle Giant
- Fensir

[Asinjin]

Here are some possible groupings:

- Cloud and Storm Giant (large giants that live in the sky)
- Voadkyn and Firbolg (good giants that have a fey connection)
- Frost Giant and Fog Giants (closest one that seems to fit with Frost)
- Fire Giant and Desert Giants (closest one that fits with Fire)
- Hill Giant and Ogres
- Stone Giant
- Trolls
- Jungle Giant
- Ettin
- Fomorian and Spriggan (evil fey tainted giants)

Thoughts?

[Windblade]

I would move troll out of the giant category all together and maybe put ettin, with hill giant, ogres and maybe throw in stone giant also.  It doesn't matter that there are 4 in a group especially when you look at magical beast which has a ton monsters.

[Asinjin]

Trolls move to magical beasts?

[Windblade]

No I wasn't saying move troll to magical beast I was just saying out of the giant maybe an abberration.  I was just saying I wouldn't worry about how big a category is and I was using magical beast as an example.

[Asinjin]

I understood, I just wasn't sure where to move it and made a suggestion.

[Hero]

Here are some possible groupings:

- Cloud and Storm Giant (large giants that live in the sky)
- Voadkyn and Firbolg (good giants that have a fey connection)
- Frost Giant and Fog Giants (closest one that seems to fit with Frost)
- Fire Giant and Desert Giants (closest one that fits with Fire)
- Hill Giant and Ogres
- Stone Giant
- Trolls
- Jungle Giant
- Ettin
- Fomorian and Spriggan (evil fey tainted giants)

Thoughts?

What's the motivation for breaking down favored enemy(giants) into that many subcategories? WotC just has them as 1. Maybe we're over-complicating? I think this is a slippery slope - animals are a single category, but tigers aren't very similar to bears. Same issue with Aberrations, magical beasts, lycanthropes...

If you want to split them up, how about categorizing based on size?

[Malchia]

What's the motivation for breaking down favored enemy(giants) into that many subcategories? WotC just has them as 1. Maybe we're over-complicating? I think this is a slippery slope - animals are a single category, but tigers aren't very similar to bears. Same issue with Aberrations, magical beasts, lycanthropes...

If you want to split them up, how about categorizing based on size?

The discussion came up because I had some questions regarding the effectiveness of the Giant Killer class.  It feels weak for a character who specializes in combat against giants to only be effective versus a small number of them over the course of a ten level career.  You need one type of giant as a favored enemy as a prerequisite for the class and you get three more types of giant through 10 levels.  To be able to use your abilities against four types of giants after all that training seems a little off.

Ideally, giants wouldn't be split up at all.  I'd like to see the prerequisites become simply Favored Enemy (Giants), then every time the Giant Killer gains the flavored enemy ability, he has to increase the bonus versus giants by +2 and can put the other +2 into another favored enemy he already has or a new favored enemy as per the normal Ranger ability.  This way, the Giant Killer would have an additional +6 versus all giants after the final favored enemy increase at 9th level in the prestige class. 

Rangers are a little underpowered to begin with.  To further dilute their abilities by separating their favored enemies as part of a specialist class is tough.  What does everyone else think?