Duels within the Match

[Asinjin]

Each match is the best of three.


The first duel has a setting selected by the underdog.

If the underdog wins the first duel, the 2nd duel is completely random.  If the favored wins the first duel, the underdog again gets to select the setting for the 2nd.

If the match goes to the third duel, the underdog gets to choose the setting.


If the first duel is a draw, the 2nd duel is selected by the underdog.

If the first and 2nd duels are draws, the 3rd one is random.


If the first duel has a winner, and the second duel is a draw, the underdog gets to choose the setting.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the underdog, then the third duel is random.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the favored, then the third duel is chosen by the underdog.


Thoughts?

[Windblade]

Sounds good to me.  I also think this helps some of the issues present on the underdog thread.

[Zunder]

Best 2 out of 3?  Seems tedious...  Winner take all, 1 shot.

Each match is the best of three.


The first duel has a setting selected by the underdog.

If the underdog wins the first duel, the 2nd duel is completely random.  If the favored wins the first duel, the underdog again gets to select the setting for the 2nd.

If the match goes to the third duel, the underdog gets to choose the setting.


If the first duel is a draw, the 2nd duel is selected by the underdog.

If the first and 2nd duels are draws, the 3rd one is random.


If the first duel has a winner, and the second duel is a draw, the underdog gets to choose the setting.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the underdog, then the third duel is random.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the favored, then the third duel is chosen by the underdog.


Thoughts?

[Asinjin]

It has to be best 2 out of 3.

[Asinjin]

The underdog may not pick the same critieria twice if he is given the opportunity to choose a setting twice in one match.

[Zunder]

Each match is the best of three.


The first duel has a setting selected by the underdog.

If the underdog wins the first duel, the 2nd duel is completely random.  If the favored wins the first duel, the underdog again gets to select the setting for the 2nd.

If the match goes to the third duel, the underdog gets to choose the setting.


If the first duel is a draw, the 2nd duel is selected by the underdog.

If the first and 2nd duels are draws, the 3rd one is random.


If the first duel has a winner, and the second duel is a draw, the underdog gets to choose the setting.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the underdog, then the third duel is random.

If the first duel is a draw, and the 2nd duel is won by the favored, then the third duel is chosen by the underdog.


Thoughts?

How do you define a draw? 

[Asinjin]

It is difficult to define in some instances, but in others it would be clear.  Some possibilities include:

-both characters in Stasis from which they cannot escape
-both character killed at same time
-characters not able to hurt each other
-characters not able to find each other

[Zunder]

I would suggest we add judging.  As it could be possible for someone to hide from someone in order not to loose.  If we have a voting element we would remove the possibilities of matching ending in draws.. either 3 draws, or 1 win each and a draw.

A council of your peers

It is difficult to define in some instances, but in others it would be clear.  Some possibilities include:

-both characters in Stasis from which they cannot escape
-both character killed at same time
-characters not able to hurt each other
-characters not able to find each other

[Asinjin]

It is not a bad idea, but it would have to be a one person judge (whoever is refereeing the duel) unless we can get others to watch.  But if we do that, then tricks and surprises would be significantly lessened.

One thought is, a character can only force one draw per match.  So if A hides i the forest from B for a day and its a draw, then A loses the duel if he does that again.  That will prevent a character from being really good at hiding and drawing every time.

Let look at an possible fight:

Take the example of the wrestler A vs any B.  A grapples B and then pins B.  B has damage reduction so much that A can't damage B in the pin.  B cannot possibly escape A's pin because his grapple check is 19 less than A.  Luckily for A, at some point, B becomes fatigued and then exhausted due to the grappling.  A doesn't because he has a higher Con and Endurance.  Once A is exhausted, he has no recourse.  Several things; we would not bother rolling out the endless rounds, we would just come to this conclusion.  Second, although exhaustion is not a win condition, should A be declared the winner?

[Zunder]

One would not have to watch the match to judge it.  It can go to vote only if needed where both players can make their case.

It is not a bad idea, but it would have to be a one person judge (whoever is refereeing the duel) unless we can get others to watch.  But if we do that, then tricks and surprises would be significantly lessened.

One thought is, a character can only force one draw per match.  So if A hides i the forest from B for a day and its a draw, then A loses the duel if he does that again.  That will prevent a character from being really good at hiding and drawing every time.

Let look at an possible fight:

Take the example of the wrestler A vs any B.  A grapples B and then pins B.  B has damage reduction so much that A can't damage B in the pin.  B cannot possibly escape A's pin because his grapple check is 19 less than A.  Luckily for A, at some point, B becomes fatigued and then exhausted due to the grappling.  A doesn't because he has a higher Con and Endurance.  Once A is exhausted, he has no recourse.  Several things; we would not bother rolling out the endless rounds, we would just come to this conclusion.  Second, although exhaustion is not a win condition, should A be declared the winner?

[Windblade]

I was talking to DM and I did suggest judges as a possible way to avoid draws but then DM made some good points as to not allow it.  Now I am on the fence about a judge but I am leaning towards no based on what DM said.  I think his biggest point was that it opens up too much subjectiveness (if that is even a word).  He gave the example of a UFC match and sometimes he can be so disappointed or POed with their decisions.  I would worry that adding judge could open the possibility of people getting annoyed or pissed off at each over the decisions that are being made.  A week ago I would have definitely voted yes for judges but now I am not so sure.

[Zunder]

Anonymous vote from everyone else.  that would be the most fair.

I was talking to DM and I did suggest judges as a possible way to avoid draws but then DM made some good points as to not allow it.  Now I am on the fence about a judge but I am leaning towards no based on what DM said.  I think his biggest point was that it opens up too much subjectiveness (if that is even a word).  He gave the example of a UFC match and sometimes he can be so disappointed or POed with their decisions.  I would worry that adding judge could open the possibility of people getting annoyed or pissed off at each over the decisions that are being made.  A week ago I would have definitely voted yes for judges but now I am not so sure.

[Valdis]

Anonymous vote from everyone else.  that would be the most fair.

Hooded cloaks and a circular table! Master Po, get on ot!

[Asinjin]

If need be, we can bring a duel to a vote to determine who won.  Luckily, I don't see this occurring often.  The primary ways a draw will occur will be two, as I see it:

1 - one character deliberately stalls or hides and does not engage.  As stated, this will be allowed once per match.  The second or third  time it is done, the runner / hider loses the duel.

2 - there is a true stalemate, as per one of the aforementioned methods (stasis, unable to harm each other, etc)

But if some other scenario occurs that does not fit either of these, we can turn to judges.

[Asinjin]

A draw will count as half a loss.  So four draws, or two draws and one loss knocks a character out.