Author Topic: Rules Committees  (Read 3377 times)

Offline Asinjin

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Rules Committees
« on: December 04, 2020, 09:32:28 AM »
In the next two months, I will be working in earnest to get ready for the 4th era.  If anyone can think of any broad areas that need to be covered in addition to the ones I list, please post.  Here are the committees already formed to discuss topics:

- History (what happens in the time between eras)
- Psionics (recreating the rules so that they are not just arcane magic rules)
- Combat (alterations to the combat rules to address current problems)
- Magic (the effects of the SNAP on how magic works)
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Offline Hero

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2021, 05:18:14 PM »
One for the combat rules committee: consider the use of fractional BAB for class advancement.

Currently, character classes advance BAB as defined on a chart. Those chart values are based on rates: poor (50%*level, e.g., wizards), average (75%*level, e.g., clerics), good (100%*level, e.g., fighters). Chart values are rounded down.

When multi classing, it is possible for a character with 2 “average” BAB classes to have a lower BAB than a “poor” class at the same level. For instance, a cleric 1/monk 1 has a BAB=0, while a wizard 2 has a BAB=1.

Fractional BAB would advance BAB using the rate defined above when adding classes, so wizard 1 has a BAB of 0.5. Still rounded down when used in game. This has the effect of slightly bumping up characters that multi class or take prestige classes that do not have full BAB. So a cleric 1/monk 1 would have a BAB of 1.5 = 1.

Haas had a span where his BAB did not increase for 3 levels because he went cleric-monk-prestige class, all of which had average BAB but because of rounding in the table there was no noticeable change in use. Fractional BAB would have given him a +2.25 BAB adjustment instead of 0.

Offline Asinjin

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2021, 05:22:18 PM »
This would have made Razilav....better....
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Offline Windblade

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2021, 05:27:08 PM »
One for the combat rules committee: consider the use of fractional BAB for class advancement.

Currently, character classes advance BAB as defined on a chart. Those chart values are based on rates: poor (50%*level, e.g., wizards), average (75%*level, e.g., clerics), good (100%*level, e.g., fighters). Chart values are rounded down.

When multi classing, it is possible for a character with 2 “average” BAB classes to have a lower BAB than a “poor” class at the same level. For instance, a cleric 1/monk 1 has a BAB=0, while a wizard 2 has a BAB=1.

Fractional BAB would advance BAB using the rate defined above when adding classes, so wizard 1 has a BAB of 0.5. Still rounded down when used in game. This has the effect of slightly bumping up characters that multi class or take prestige classes that do not have full BAB. So a cleric 1/monk 1 would have a BAB of 1.5 = 1.

Haas had a span where his BAB did not increase for 3 levels because he went cleric-monk-prestige class, all of which had average BAB but because of rounding in the table there was no noticeable change in use. Fractional BAB would have given him a +2.25 BAB adjustment instead of 0.

I am think this is a cool idea.  Just hate adding in more things to keep track of but I am game if everyone else is.

Offline whitesword

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2021, 09:50:03 PM »
I'll defer to those with a better grasp of math than I.

Offline Zunder

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2021, 10:03:36 PM »
Screw it.. I want hero to rewrite the PHB 3.5 - his makes more sense.

Offline Hero

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2021, 11:16:32 PM »
While I would love to take credit for it, it is not my idea. I stumbled across it a while back when we were talking about the critical fumble rules.
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/unchained-rules/fractional-base-bonuses/

Offline Hero

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2021, 08:02:12 PM »
I am think this is a cool idea.  Just hate adding in more things to keep track of but I am game if everyone else is.
I don’t think there’s much to track. It would only be during leveling - add 0.5, 0.75, or 1.0 to your BAB depending on you class. Round the total down when using it for attacks. Doesn’t affect straight classes or monsters.

Basically, instead of rounding BAB then adding (like on the class tables) you add then round.

Offline Asinjin

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2021, 09:57:58 AM »
I don’t think there’s much to track. It would only be during leveling - add 0.5, 0.75, or 1.0 to your BAB depending on you class. Round the total down when using it for attacks. Doesn’t affect straight classes or monsters.

Basically, instead of rounding BAB then adding (like on the class tables) you add then round.

A reminder now that people may get a 2nd level, we are using the fractional BAB in the 4th era.
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Offline Hero

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2021, 10:15:55 AM »
A reminder now that people may get a 2nd level, we are using the fractional BAB in the 4th era.
Nice. Should we talk grappling too?

Offline Windblade

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2021, 10:21:19 AM »
I think we should stick with the grappling rules as written in the PHB.  If there is a feat in question that makes the grappling rules broken then we should change that feat or not allow it. Although when I read scorpion's grasp it doesn't sound too bad and I would be fine with it.  However, if push comes to show I would change scorpions grasp before changing the grappling rules.

Offline Asinjin

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2021, 10:39:42 AM »
We have not played initial damage dealt when a grapple is initiated in all the years of 3rd edition, so I won't add it in now.  None of the martial prestige classes are built with that in mind.  If the concern is that grappling is too powerful, adding that would only make it worse.
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Offline Hero

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2021, 12:05:41 PM »
Why is grappling too powerful?

Offline Windblade

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #13 on: May 13, 2021, 04:40:08 PM »
I was never concerned it was too powerful.  The characters that have the most trouble with grapples are magic users and they have several spells to get out of it and there are also several items to get out of it.  Throughout the whole 3rd era I never felt like  being grappled posed a huge threat expect for certain characters and those characters I made sure had ways to get out of it.  If you don't plan on being grappled and having an escape route then I think that is on the player.  I guess we will see if a change in magic and magic items have an impact on grapple.  Grappling is there but so are things like freedom of movement to counter it.  That being said.  I don't have a strong opinion on which way we go with this.

Offline Terrorshard

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Re: Rules Committees
« Reply #14 on: May 13, 2021, 08:53:53 PM »
Grappling is way too polarizing, mostly because a character who is optimized to grapple won't fail grapples. It completely shuts down everything that isn't prepared with little effort. It heavily punishes heavy armor. The rules are also just not great, one of the biggest flaws in 3.5 was the grappling rules.

Pathfinder cleaned up the grappling a lot.

Here is the flowchart for pathfinder grappling.

http://pfsprep.com/e107_files/public/1482694608_186_FT297_grappleflowchart_1.0.pdf

CMB is:

Combat Maneuver Bonus
Each character and creature has a Combat Maneuver Bonus (or CMB) that represents its skill at performing combat maneuvers. A creature’s CMB is determined using the following formula:

CMB = Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + special size modifier

CMD is:

Each character and creature has a Combat Maneuver Defense (or CMD) that represents its ability to resist combat maneuvers. A creature’s CMD is determined using the following formula:

CMD = 10 + Base attack bonus + Strength modifier + Dexterity modifier + special size modifier + miscellaneous modifiers