Habololy Forum
Habololy Concepts => Domain => Topic started by: Asinjin on March 07, 2012, 01:16:10 PM
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Tyrogatore's last domain to review.
No ability yet. Thoughts?
1 - Remove Fear
2 - Fell the Greatest Foe
3 - Cloak of Bravery
4 - Good Hope OR Crown of Courage
5 - Valiant Fury
6 - ??
7 - Greater Heroism
8 - Lion's Roar
9 - Greater Cloak of Bravery
Ideas?
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Ability: Once per day per cleric level, while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. This ability functions similar to the Bards Inspire Courage ability except it grants a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses Charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on natural weapon or unarmed attack and damage rolls per 4 cleric levels. So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3 etc...
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I like the ability but it needs either an area or ally limit.
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Like the bard ability, your allies must be able to see you fight to benefit from this ability.
Ability: Once per day per cleric level, while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. This ability functions similar to the Bards Inspire Courage ability except it grants a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses Charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on natural weapon or unarmed attack and damage rolls per 4 cleric levels. So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3 etc... Like the bard ability, your allies must be able to see you fight to benefit from this ability.
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Like the bard ability, your allies must be able to see you fight to benefit from this ability.
Ability: Once per day per cleric level, while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. This ability functions similar to the Bards Inspire Courage ability except it grants a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses Charm and fear effects and a +1 morale bonus on natural weapon or unarmed attack and damage rolls per 4 cleric levels. So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3 etc... Like the bard ability, your allies must be able to see you fight to benefit from this ability.
I would still put the limit on it for the reason that it will need room to improve as a Devotee ability. Keep in mind Greater Cloak of Bravery provides fewer and less powerful bonuses and is the only all allies in line of sight spell that I am aware of and its 9th level.
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1 - Remove Fear
2 - Fell the Greatest Foe
3 - Cloak of Bravery
4 - Good Hope OR Crown of Courage
5 - Valiant Fury
6 - Valiant Steed
7 - Greater Heroism
8 - Lion's Roar
9 - Greater Cloak of Bravery
Input on the 4th level spell.
For the ability, would it be once per round a number of times equal to your cleric level?
The save bonus should just be against fear, not charm.
Number of allies equal to cleric level. Does not include the cleric.
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What happened to my original list?
I think the ability should apply to the cleric or did you mean he does not count against the total? The type of bonus should be one that will stack with the spells, most of which are Morale bonuses. Otherwise it's useless.
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I don't know what happened to any lists on here.
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I don't know what happened to any lists on here.
What kind of site are you running here . . .
I really like Good Hope and I don't know Crown of Courage.
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I would like to look for my original list and see if I had something better than valiant steed. Doesnt really fit with the rest.
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Options for 6th and 7th: Greater Heroism is really a 6th level spell and could be moved there. Two spells for 6th or 7th Empyreal Ecstasy (removes the effects of pain, makes subject immune to charms and takes only half damage but has penalties to skill checks) or Bastion of Good (creates a lesser globe of invulnerability and circle against evil, can easily be made for evil caster). Both form Exalted Deeds. I like EE of the two as I think it is more consistent with the effects of true courage/bravery.
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1 - Remove Fear
2 - Fell the Greatest Foe
3 - Cloak of Bravery
4 - Good Hope OR Crown of Courage
5 - Valiant Fury
6 - Greater Heroism
7 - Empyreal Ecstasy
8 - Lion's Roar
9 - Greater Cloak of Bravery
Crown of Courage
30 foot radius centered on creature touched
1 hour / level or until discharged
+1 bonus of attack and damage; +4 to saves vs fear
Discharge to grant every ally within 30 feet a new save vs fear at +4
focus is a 50gc or more valuable crown
target may not be wearing a headpiece for spell to function
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I like good hope better. The Crown spell seems too much like many of the others.
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1 - Remove Fear
2 - Fell the Greatest Foe
3 - Cloak of Bravery
4 - Good Hope
5 - Valiant Fury
6 - Greater Heroism
7 - Empyreal Ecstasy
8 - Lion's Roar
9 - Greater Cloak of Bravery
Look good to everyone? Post by tomorrow or forever hold your peace.
We do however, still need to settle on a granted power for this domain.
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For the ability I would say however many times a day the bard ability works for a number of rounds equal to your charisma mod.
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The bard ability is tied to the #of Bardic Music uses per day. We could substitute that with the cleric's turn attempt and make it the duration equal to the clerics level Plus Charisma modifier
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This is also for Tfop?
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Tyrogatore, Stasis, and Tfop
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Since Tfop doesn't have a turn-like ability, it will be an issue tying this ability to turning.
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How about 1x per day per Cha modifier.
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Tfop should have some sort of turn ability to make use of divine feats even if they can not turn the undead. Even if you just give tfop an ability that can't be used a # of times per day equal to there turn attempts then they should still have some way to use divine feats. So if you are keeping track of it for divine feats then you can also say for the courage ability for tfop that it would be = to the # of turn attempts they would have gotten. This is much simple to state then to write out and explain but hopefully everyone gets the idea.
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We will have to bring Master Po in for this, but we have reviewed it before and determined that his current replacement ability is appropriate.
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Tfop should have some sort of turn ability to make use of divine feats even if they can not turn the undead. Even if you just give tfop an ability that can't be used a # of times per day equal to there turn attempts then they should still have some way to use divine feats. So if you are keeping track of it for divine feats then you can also say for the courage ability for tfop that it would be = to the # of turn attempts they would have gotten. This is much simple to state then to write out and explain but hopefully everyone gets the idea.
Why do you think they should have access to the Divine feats? I think what Tfop's followers get instead of turning makes a lot of sense. I never felt like Claude missed out because he couldn't take divine feats. Just another choice we all have to make.
I don't like the idea of basing it on something I would have gotten if I had the abilty. I would rather have it based on something a character actually has. Charisma would be tough for Claude but it's better than the alternative.
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I believe the turning ability or its replacements are what makes a cleric a cleric. It is access to the power that let's the cleric exert there deities will on the world. I believe that all the cleric turn abilities should in some way tie back to that power. The brew potion is simple to fix and base it on that power. You could do the following.
Tfop power: Brew Potion (ignore prerequisites) feat AND Skill Focus (Alchemy) feat AND add caster level to Craft (Alchemy) skill checks. The potion has a number of doses equal the amount of turn undead charges the cleric would spend to make it or maybe half the number of turn undead charges the cleric used to make it if that works better.
That way they still have access to the divine feats. It doesn't make sense to me that Tfop's clerics are the only ones not to have access to them.
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I brought this whole issue up in the Water domain a few weeks ago. I have to defer to DM's judgement about whether the replacement powers offset the loss of the ability to turn AND access to the divine feats.
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I do not know all of the deities abilities but this is the first one I notice that wasn't based on turn attempts. Tyragatore I know has stunning fist but it is the same amount as turn attempts so you can use stunning fists to power divine feats. Same with Lakius and water breathing. I guess the DM can enlighten us to any abilities that don't work like turn attempts such as Tfop's. Then I think we should modify them all to incorporate the turn attempt mechanic in some way like we did with Lakius and Tyragatore.
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Another option which I really like but is a little more complicated is to change the name of the turn undead ability to to something like divine power. Every cleric has a pool of divine power from the deity which can be used to power turn undead, divine feats and the abilities that we give the cleric such as stunning fist. This pool should be calculated like the turn undead is for the # of times a cleric can use it. That way we can have abilities like the one Tfop has in place of turning undead that doesn't have to rely on the # of turn undeads and still give the cleric access to divine feats.
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Since we have now a new forum to discuss the abilities of the clerics, let us return to discussing the specific granted power for the Courage domain.
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The bard ability is tied to the #of Bardic Music uses per day. We could substitute that with the cleric's turn attempt and make it the duration equal to the clerics level Plus Charisma modifier
I would just do this since we can't worry right now that Tfop can't use it and after our discussion maybe he can.
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I would just do this since we can't worry right now that Tfop can't use it and after our discussion maybe he can.
I don't think we can do that. If the clerics of Tfop don't have the pool of turn attempts to draw from and the others do we make the ability more powerful for Tfop than the others. My vote is number of times per day equal to Charisma mod. It's a pretty potent ability.
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I don't think we can do that. If the clerics of Tfop don't have the pool of turn attempts to draw from and the others do we make the ability more powerful for Tfop than the others. My vote is number of times per day equal to Charisma mod. It's a pretty potent ability.
That sounds fine. What exactly is the ability again?
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Ability: Once per day a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once per day), while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. All allies within 30 feet that are aware of the cleric's presence gain a +2 morale bonus on natural weapon or unarmed attack and damage rolls and a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses fear effects per 4 cleric levels to a maximum bonus of +5. (So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3). This ability lasts for one round and can be activated as a swift action. If the cleric is incapacitated in any way, the effect ends immediately. In addition, a cleric may use a Turn Undead attempt, or similar ability attempt, to use this Courage domain ability additional times.
I have altered it, what do you think?
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Why would you only get the bonus to unarmed/natural attacks ? That makes no sense and makes it useless for Stasis and Tfop.
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Ability: Once per day a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once per day), while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. All allies within 30 feet that are aware of the cleric's presence gain a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls and a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses fear effects per 4 cleric levels to a maximum bonus of +5. (So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3). This ability lasts for one round and can be activated as a swift action. If the cleric is incapacitated in any way, the effect ends immediately. In addition, a cleric may use a Turn Undead attempt, or similar ability attempt, to use this Courage domain ability additional times.
Just a wording oversight,
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I'm a fan of this ability. Very cool.
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Ability: Once per day a number of times equal to your Charisma modifier (a minimum of once per day), while the cleric is engaged in combat, the cleric can inspire his allies with his fighting prowess. All allies within 30 feet that are aware of the cleric's presence gain a +2 morale bonus on attack and damage rolls and a +1 morale bonus to Saving throws verses fear effects per 4 cleric levels to a maximum bonus of +5. (So a 5th level cleric would grant a +2 to saves, attack and damage, a 9th level cleric would grant a +3). This ability lasts for one round and can be activated as a swift action. If the cleric is incapacitated in any way, the effect ends immediately. In addition, a cleric may use a Turn Undead attempt, or similar ability attempt, to use this Courage domain ability additional times.
Just a wording oversight,
It seems a little powerful. I would scale it back but I know these abilities seem to be very different in powerful so it is difficult to judge.
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I just reread it and seems ok. Originally, I thought the cleric got the bonuses too.
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I think one of two, I would say both, changes need to be made: it should apply to the cleric and/or it should last more than one round. I think all domain abilities should have some personal component (i.e. should affect the cleric first).
The way its written the attack/damage bonus and the save bonus are different but in the level example they are the same.
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I think one of two, I would say both, changes need to be made: it should apply to the cleric and/or it should last more than one round. I think all domain abilities should have some personal component (i.e. should affect the cleric first).
The way its written the attack/damage bonus and the save bonus are different but in the level example they are the same.
I disagree based on the power level. I think it is very powerful as is. However, I think you made a good point that abilities should effect the cleric. If we go with all abilities effecting clerics which I think is fine then this ability would need to be changed to something else.
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I think it is okay to include the cleric. This power is significantly less powerful than the bardic Inspire Courage, which lasts for much longer each use, includes the bard, and can get a higher bonus to everything.
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If no one else has any thoughts on the granted power, I will lock this one tomorrow.