Habololy Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Malchia on November 15, 2022, 10:57:00 AM
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With the implementation of fractional BAB, I was thinking of a possible new feat for Habaloly. I'm not sure of all the details, but I was thinking something like this. I'd need help from the DM's to balance it out, and of course DM Asinjin to approve it, but here's the general idea:
Trained Warrior or Combat Training or Battle Hardened
Prerequisites: None
Feats: None
Benefit: Add .25 to fractional BAB
Special: You can gain Trained Warrior multiple times. It's effects stack, but cannot exceed the character's total level. For example, a first level Cleric could take this feat to start with a total BAB of +1. If the same character gains a level in Fighter, they could not take Trained Warrior as a bonus feat since this would exceed the total possible +2 BAB the 2nd level character could have. If at 3rd level the character takes another level in Cleric, they could take Trained Warrior again for a total BAB of +3 since they are now third level. This feat can be used to meet prerequisites for BAB since it is an actual BAB increase due to training and not any other type of enhancement.
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Interesting thought. I think you'd use .33, not .25 but a feat for such a modest increase does not seem overpowered if it were a 1 time increase. One feat to turn a cleric BAB into a fighter would be too much.
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Interesting thought. I think you'd use .33, not .25 but a feat for such a modest increase does not seem overpowered if it were a 1 time increase. One feat to turn a cleric BAB into a fighter would be too much.
I used .25 because it seems to jive better mathematically with the existing fractional BAB. Poor = .5, Average = .75, Good = 1. That way, even if someone were to take this feat 8 times over 20 levels, it would only amount to a total of +2 BAB. It makes it difficult to abuse plus it helps balance out cross-class characters that may suffer from slow BAB progression. Like I said, just a thought, but I could see this getting some use, especially in a magic starved world where things are wonky. There's precedent for a feat that allows non-combat focused characters an opportunity for added training and the chance to learn some fighting skills.
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I was thinking about how I would use it. It would be a multi-classed character, where i stopped at a partial level. Never again to gain any more points in that class. I would like to see it be a one time feat - you can take only once. But it would round you up to the next BAB if you need less then 1.
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I was thinking about how I would use it. It would be a multi-classed character, where i stopped at a partial level. Never again to gain any more points in that class. I would like to see it be a one time feat - you can take only once. But it would round you up to the next BAB if you need less then 1.
I appreciate the feedback; it's helpful when trying to flesh these things out. I thought about a one-time feat, but then it becomes way underpowered. I was comparing it to "An Axe to Protect Me" which brings a Dwarven Wizard to the average BAB and "An Axe to Save Me" which brings them to good BAB. I realize it's a racial feat, but still, we're talking two feats that transform a Wizard into a full caster, with all bonus Metamagic feats in tact, as well as a full Fighter. Granted, it's only with an axe, but nonetheless devastating.
The spirit of this feat is significantly watered down intentionally in order to represent additional combat training while still maintaining class progression in an alternate path. Hence why it's only .25 fractional BAB. Think of something like a Bardic Paladin. A follower of Melodi that starts off as a Bard, takes this feat at 1st level to go from .75 BAB to +1 BAB, then cross-classes to a Paladin at 2nd for a total of +2 BAB. If they choose to continue with these two classes or experiment with others, such as Asinjin's many characters, they have the option at feat gaining levels to choose to take something different, or perhaps stack another instance of this feat on to represent their pursuit of fighting skills without having to take a class in Fighter.
I feel that being able to take it once only benefits someone wanting to take a single level in a .75 BAB class like Bard, Cleric, or Rogue then never touch another class that isn't a full +1 BAB. It's too limiting. The ability to stack at least gives people a fighting chance to gain an additional BAB at higher levels, so it gets incrementally better the more you take it, thus scaling with higher level characters. For example, someone who decides to go full Rogue takes this feat four times over the course of 20 levels. By the time they reach 20th, they'll have four base attacks at +16/11/6/1 instead of three attacks at +15/10/5. It isn't a big increase, but enough to represent their dedication to combat training and reward them with an extra attack. Again, high level pay off with the long game in mind.
With all that being said, it could maybe be increased to a .5 fractional BAB and limited to only taking twice or something like that. That way no character could ever gain more than a +1 total BAB over time. I'm open to suggestions, so keep them coming.
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Although I haven't been there for many of the discussion on this I think a feat that increase BAB even if it is by a fraction is just messing with the mechanics to much. Especially since there is a feat that increase BAB they all increase attack bonus. The only things that typical increase BAB are spells so maybe there is room for a new type of spell.
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Although I haven't been there for many of the discussion on this I think a feat that increase BAB even if it is by a fraction is just messing with the mechanics to much. Especially since there is a feat that increase BAB they all increase attack bonus. The only things that typical increase BAB are spells so maybe there is room for a new type of spell.
Good Point - BAB can be increased by a feat, but it's usually based on a singular weapon. Like weapon Focus.
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Good Point - BAB can be increased by a feat, but it's usually based on a singular weapon. Like weapon Focus.
I'm unaware of any feat that increases BAB. What's it called? Weapon Focus adds a +1, but not to BAB. I think it's a competency bonus. The spirit of this feat is designed to actually raise BAB based on additional training. Think of it as a partial multi-class option.
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I don’t see any problems with this. Melee types could use all the help they could get.
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I don’t see any problems with this. Melee types could use all the help they could get.
That is an excellent point.
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Now - do we need a feat to give Ranger the Full Animal Companion that Druids get?
call it " Fixing the the Founders Mistake"
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Now - do we need a feat to give Ranger the Full Animal Companion that Druids get?
call it " Fixing the the Founders Mistake"
That shouldn't even be a feat, just simply make it the new rule.
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That shouldn't even be a feat, just simply make it the new rule.
Agreed!
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Agreed!
Good time to do it. Since there aren't many Ranger's with Animal Companions in the current Era
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Good time to do it. Since there aren't many Ranger's with Animal Companions in the current Era
So the proposal would be to swap the ranger’s current animal companion progression where effective druid level = 1/2 ranger level to effective druid level = ranger level.
Access to the special ability would not change, animal companion would still be gained at Ranger 4. And minimum level and associated level adjustments would apply as normal for alternative companions (e.g., ape at 4th level with a -3 adjustment).
I think this makes the ability much more functional for a relatively weak class. Non-casters need all the help they can get.
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So the proposal would be to swap the ranger’s current animal companion progression where effective druid level = 1/2 ranger level to effective druid level = ranger level.
Access to the special ability would not change, animal companion would still be gained at Ranger 4. And minimum level and associated level adjustments would apply as normal for alternative companions (e.g., ape at 4th level with a -3 adjustment).
I think this makes the ability much more functional for a relatively weak class. Non-casters need all the help they can get.
Agreed
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Yes.. poking the DM
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Looks like Pathfinder modified the ranger’s animal companion vs 3.5:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex- (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex-)
Changed to effective druid level=ranger level-3 instead of half. Better than 3.5, but I still like our suggestion of druid level=ranger level.
Side note. Also fun that PF modified the ranger’s combat style to include other options in addition to archery and TWF. That’s neat. I like the idea of having paths for rangers with thrown weapons (like Odde and his harpoon), natural attacks (makes sense for monstrous humanoid rangers like Vass) and mounted combat (perfect for Yellowian rangers).
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Looks like Pathfinder modified the ranger’s animal companion vs 3.5:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex- (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex-)
Changed to effective druid level=ranger level-3 instead of half. Better than 3.5, but I still like our suggestion of druid level=ranger level.
Side note. Also fun that PF modified the ranger’s combat style to include other options in addition to archery and TWF. That’s neat. I like the idea of having paths for rangers with thrown weapons (like Odde and his harpoon), natural attacks (makes sense for monstrous humanoid rangers like Vass) and mounted combat (perfect for Yellowian rangers).
Rangers are terribly underpowered, so I agree that giving them full Druid animal companion abilities would be best. It makes perfect sense and is class appropriate.
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Looks like Pathfinder modified the ranger’s animal companion vs 3.5:
https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex- (https://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/Core-Classes/Ranger/#TOC-Hunter-s-Bond-Ex-)
Changed to effective druid level=ranger level-3 instead of half. Better than 3.5, but I still like our suggestion of druid level=ranger level.
Side note. Also fun that PF modified the ranger’s combat style to include other options in addition to archery and TWF. That’s neat. I like the idea of having paths for rangers with thrown weapons (like Odde and his harpoon), natural attacks (makes sense for monstrous humanoid rangers like Vass) and mounted combat (perfect for Yellowian rangers).
Those "Combat Styles" are really neat. Some of them impact other Prestiges. Or maybe we should lean into it.
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Those "Combat Styles" are really neat. Some of them impact other Prestiges. Or maybe we should lean into it.
It’s a nice option. I would not add them all, just the couple that seem most relevant to rangers: mounted, throwing, natural attacks.
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I like the idea. One of the best things about rangers in 2nd edition was animal companions and I miss that.
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With the implementation of fractional BAB, I was thinking of a possible new feat for Habaloly. I'm not sure of all the details, but I was thinking something like this. I'd need help from the DM's to balance it out, and of course DM Asinjin to approve it, but here's the general idea:
Trained Warrior or Combat Training or Battle Hardened
Prerequisites: None
Feats: None
Benefit: Add .25 to fractional BAB
Special: You can gain Trained Warrior multiple times. It's effects stack, but cannot exceed the character's total level. For example, a first level Cleric could take this feat to start with a total BAB of +1. If the same character gains a level in Fighter, they could not take Trained Warrior as a bonus feat since this would exceed the total possible +2 BAB the 2nd level character could have. If at 3rd level the character takes another level in Cleric, they could take Trained Warrior again for a total BAB of +3 since they are now third level. This feat can be used to meet prerequisites for BAB since it is an actual BAB increase due to training and not any other type of enhancement.
To the powers that be, have we made any decisions on this potential feat? The thread eventually veered off into the Ranger's animal companion, which was approved, but I don't see anything else mentioning the original idea. Just curious if this is approved, needs to be tweaked, or is being scrapped altogether.