Habololy Forum
Habololy Books => Epic Handbook => Topic started by: Asinjin on July 05, 2018, 03:50:17 PM
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Addressing the issue of what happens for those that take this vow at Epic levels.
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Up for review and debate:
21st - AC bonus +11, Resist Planar Effects
22nd - Resistance +4, Bonus Exalted Epic Feat
23rd - Exalted Strike Epic, Damage Reduction 5/epic
24th - AC bonus +12, natural armor +1, Deflection +4
25th - Spell Resistance (5+ character level)
26th - Ability Score Enhancement +10/ +8/ +6/ +4/ +2, Avoid Planar Effects
27th - AC bonus +13, Energy Resistance 25
28th - Resistance +5, Bonus Exalted Epic Feat
29th - Damage Reduction 10/epic
30th - AC bonus +14, Deflection +5
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Are you proposing adding a new feat to expand the abilities, or just adding it to the standard VoP?
I think precedent for a new feat is set by existing feats like Epic Leadership and the Craft Epic magic item series.
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Are you proposing adding a new feat to expand the abilities, or just adding it to the standard VoP?
I think precedent for a new feat is set by existing feats like Epic Leadership and the Craft Epic magic item series.
That's a good point. More so the Leadership feat, but still.
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There should be no extra feat to take it. Leadership is a skill that you can choose to increase if you want as you get in to epic and you make that decision by picking the epic leadership feat. Vow of Poverty is you going up all magic items so if you want the character to be functional into epic levels then you need to extended. They are already giving up so much with the magic items that there is no need to charge them a feat.
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There should be no extra feat to take it. Leadership is a skill that you can choose to increase if you want as you get in to epic and you make that decision by picking the epic leadership feat. Vow of Poverty is you going up all magic items so if you want the character to be functional into epic levels then you need to extended. They are already giving up so much with the magic items that there is no need to charge them a feat.
Leadership isn't a skill.
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Yeah I know. I was using the term more generically. Didn't mean to mix it up with an actual skill from the game. The point is that is more of an optional thing that your character can choose to get better at but it will not really impact you if you choose not to get better at being leader but choose to get better at something else. The vow of poverty is more of a flavor thing to help roleplaying and the abilities replace magic items so it would make sense to keep that ability into epic levels. It is not like a normal character is not allowed to earn gold at epic level and buy epic items.
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This is interesting because it's a feat initially, so the issue is do you choose to evolve into something more, or do you simply get better abilities as your character becomes epic?
I would vote for an Epic Vow of Poverty feat similar to Epic Leadership. Kind of like renewing wedding vows except that you're taking on an even deeper level of commitment. Feats are choices, so you should be able to choose whether you continue down a certain path or choose to diversify. For example, do you take Great Cleave after taking Cleave or do you move on to something else like Two-weapon Fighting?
On the flip side, I think class abilities should grow as you gain power, like spell casters gaining access to 10th level spells and spell slots at 21st level, fighters getting bonus epic feats every other level, or Clerics turning additional undead. These abilities shouldn't require feats since they represent your continued study or practice in whatever discipline you chose at 1st level.
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The character basically becomes unplayable without it. It should not even be a thought to have an extra f es at for it.
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The character basically becomes unplayable without it. It should not even be a thought to have an extra f es at for it.
After reading the feat, I withdraw my previous statement. It clearly states within the text that your abilities are level based. I agree with Windblade that the powers should increase into the epic realm once your character hits 21+ levels.
Benefit
You gain bonuses to your Armor Class, ability scores, and saving throws, as well as bonus exalted feats, all depending on your character level. See Voluntary Poverty in Chapter 2 for details.
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It won't be a new feat, lets look at the advanced abilities now and review them.
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It won't be a new feat, lets look at the advanced abilities now and review them.
I feel like Exalted Strike Epic should come sooner than 23rd level, but I realize it doesn't exactly fit with the pattern of ability growth found on the initial chart. Not sure what to suggest for that one. Maybe 22nd? You spend a level (21st) as an epic character learning how to overcome epic opponents, than figure it out by 22nd. I'm not sure a character with this feat would ever live to see 23rd level without the ability to damage epic opponents.
Maybe continue the pattern and have ability score enhancements at 23rd (+10/+8/+6/+4/+2) and 27th (+12/+10/+8/+6/+4/+2).
Character Level Benefits
1st AC bonus +4
2nd Bonus exalted feat
3rd AC bonus +5, endure elements
4th Exalted strike +1 (magic), bonus exalted feat
5th Sustenance
6th AC bonus +6, deflection +1, bonus exalted feat
7th Resistance +1, ability score enhancement +2
8th Natural armor +1, mind shielding, bonus exalted feat
9th AC bonus +7
10th Exalted strike +2 (good), damage reduction 5/magic, bonus exalted feat
11th Ability score enhancement +4/+2
12th AC bonus +8, deflection +2, greater sustenance, bonus exalted feat
13th Resistance +2, energy resistance 5
14th Exalted strike +3, freedom of movement, bonus exalted feat
15th AC bonus +9, ability score enhancement +6/+4/+2, damage reduction 5/evil
16th Natural armor +2, bonus exalted feat
17th Exalted strike +4, resistance +3, regeneration
18th AC bonus +10, deflection +3, true seeing, bonus exalted feat
19th Ability score enhancement +8/+6/+4/+2, damage reduction 10/evil
20th Exalted strike +5, energy resistance 15, bonus exalted feat
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I feel like Exalted Strike Epic should come sooner than 23rd level, but I realize it doesn't exactly fit with the pattern of ability growth found on the initial chart. Not sure what to suggest for that one. Maybe 22nd? You spend a level (21st) as an epic character learning how to overcome epic opponents, than figure it out by 22nd. I'm not sure a character with this feat would ever live to see 23rd level without the ability to damage epic opponents.
To argue the other side, epic magic weapons require epic crafters, so they are not as easy to come by as normal magic weapons. Epic characters without VoP don’t easily have access to them, so should it take longer for VoP to give Epic Strike? Ari is 22nd level and doesn’t have an epic weapon (though he might if Whitesword posted some loot values...).
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To argue the other side, epic magic weapons require epic crafters, so they are not as easy to come by as normal magic weapons. Epic characters without VoP don’t easily have access to them, so should it take longer for VoP to give Epic Strike? Ari is 22nd level and doesn’t have an epic weapon (though he might if Whitesword posted some loot values...).
That's a good point. Nobody in our group with a character over 20th has an epic weapon as far as I know. Ultimately, it could go either way. DM's call as usual.
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I was going to agree with Malchia on the Epic weapon but Hero made a good counter argument so maybe it should just stay. I don't think anything else is really missing and I don't think we can really determine what level to put it all at until we played it a bit. We just don't have enough experience with epic level characters. The only suggestion I would make is to give more bonus exalted feats to stick with the pattern from the non epic template. Would we have to make epic exalted feats or do they exist somewhere?
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I was going to agree with Malchia on the Epic weapon but Hero made a good counter argument so maybe it should just stay. I don't think anything else is really missing and I don't think we can really determine what level to put it all at until we played it a bit. We just don't have enough experience with epic level characters. The only suggestion I would make is to give more bonus exalted feats to stick with the pattern from the non epic template. Would we have to make epic exalted feats or do they exist somewhere?
The reason I didn't put in more feats is because there aren't enough exalted ones.
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So we just need to make a few more feats
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Any other thoughts on the ability list?
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Any other thoughts on the ability list?
Would this list extend beyond 30th in theory or does Habololian epic progression cap at that level?
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Would this list extend beyond 30th in theory or does Habololian epic progression cap at that level?
In theory yes, but in practice it is not worth the time to create.