XP Costing Spells and Abilities

[Asinjin]

Discussion of how to deal with abilities or spells which cost xp.

Since the tournament does not effect the campaign, there is no penalty to using these spells / abilities.

One adjustment will be that within the tournament, although you gain no xp from the matches, you can lose xp via these abilities and spells.  That xp lost, does carry over.  Once you reach a point where losing more xp would cost you a level, depending on the spell, one of two things happen:

1 - You can no longer use those spells and abilities, since you are not allowed to lose a level

2 - You lose a level and continue

[Windblade]

I personally think the xp should be deducted and not add on again even after the tournament or we will not get the true effect of losing experience.  If we have the experience reset at the end of the tournament then it is just like having an extra magic item that can only be used a certain amount of times throughout the tournament.  If the exp is only lost during the tournament it is not a strong enough penalty to me especially with some of the spells I have read. 

I would have the exp be lost permanently or I would just ban these spells.

[whitesword]

If you lose the xp for using the spells then you should get it back if you win the match up to your original total but not above (no level gain). Obviously if you use up enough to lose a level and don't win you would be at a significant disadvantage going forward.

[Asinjin]

Most spells do not allow you to lose a level.  If you don't have enough xp over the last level, you can't cast the spell or use the ability.

The getting xp back if you win won't work.  If the spell would never be used in the fashion it is used in the tournament, but in the tournament it allows you to win fights only because you get the reset of xp, that can't be allowed.

My preferred solution is that you can use it, but it does not reset between duels or matches.  So it becomes a more limited than a use magic item.  However, let us continue to discuss.

[Valdis]

I agree that the spells should be used, but I do not think that the XP loss should carry over to any actual games.  Seeing as this "tournament" is not involved in any story arc, I think that the loss would impact ongoing campaigns too much

[whitesword]

I'm not saying xp should reset automatically. You should get the xp value of the win. This would discourage the high level characters from using these spells against lower level characters who may not get them back the xp.

I would not support this sort of singling out for xp spells. If disabilities are going to carry over from match to match or duel to duel then all disabilities should carry over. Remember, this is essentially an academic exercise and lots of logical objections have to be set aside so tinkering with the rules is a bad idea unless you want to open a big can of worms.

[whitesword]

I agree that the spells should be used, but I do not think that the XP loss should carry over to any actual games.  Seeing as this "tournament" is not involved in any story arc, I think that the loss would impact ongoing campaigns too much

I don't think the possibility of loss outside the tournament is even under discussion. Even if we could get levels out of this I wouldn't participate if we could lose levels. See my above post that was posted as you were posting.

[Asinjin]

I understand what you are saying now Whitesword.  You lose the xp and then if you win the match, you can reclaim the xp lost through those spells and abilities only.  You still could not cast the spells or use the abilities to lose a level (in most cases) and if you lose the match, you are out of luck for future matches.

That is a fair solution.

[Windblade]

I'm not saying xp should reset automatically. You should get the xp value of the win. This would discourage the high level characters from using these spells against lower level characters who may not get them back the xp.

I would not support this sort of singling out for xp spells. If disabilities are going to carry over from match to match or duel to duel then all disabilities should carry over. Remember, this is essentially an academic exercise and lots of logical objections have to be set aside so tinkering with the rules is a bad idea unless you want to open a big can of worms.

The problem is there is no exp giving out in this tournament for the same reason you said that exp shouldn't be taken away during the tournament.  The problem here is the spells are designed to make you think before you use them and the xp cost is a big thing to have to weigh.  If you take away the xp cost have any meaning then the spells are overpowered and wouldn't work in our tournament setting.  There are a few spells I can think of especially some in the magic of habololy that we really need to have a significantly penalty to use them or they will warp the game.  My thought would be to just ban the spells that have xp cost especially the one in the habololy magic book.

[Asinjin]

There will be no outside the tournament effects.

[Asinjin]

Ban all of those spells won't work.  There are some (Alter Fortune) that are minor xp penalty, get used in game, and are legitimate to use each duel.

This shouldn't be a big deal, we are talking about maybe 6 spells that cause a problem.

[whitesword]

The problem is there is no exp giving out in this tournament for the same reason you said that exp shouldn't be taken away during the tournament.  The problem here is the spells are designed to make you think before you use them and the xp cost is a big thing to have to weigh.  If you take away the xp cost have any meaning then the spells are overpowered and wouldn't work in our tournament setting.  There are a few spells I can think of especially some in the magic of habololy that we really need to have a significantly penalty to use them or they will warp the game.  My thought would be to just ban the spells that have xp cost especially the one in the habololy magic book.

The risk is the same as in the regular game. If you use them and lose the match then you are really out of luck. If you overuse them against weak opponents then you might not have them when you come up against a real opponent.

[Windblade]

Then I think we need to address those spells.  If we ban some of those spells or come with a solution for those specific spells then I can careless what the overall rules are.

[Asinjin]

Then we will use Whitesword's rule for the majority of the spells.

For the few others, we will do a case by case basis.

The first, Dedestroyt's Deathguard: I will only allow its use by clerics of Dedestroyt in the tournament; or by characters that use it regularly in game (of which there are none).

[Windblade]

Then we will use Whitesword's rule for the majority of the spells.

For the few others, we will do a case by case basis.

The first, Dedestroyt's Deathguard: I will only allow its use by clerics of Dedestroyt in the tournament; or by characters that use it regularly in game (of which there are none).

That was my biggest concern so with this being out that makes a big difference to me.