Author Topic: Magic Missile  (Read 11745 times)

Offline Asinjin

  • DM
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9390
    • View Profile
    • Habololy
Magic Missile
« on: December 19, 2016, 01:33:54 PM »
Should the spell, when it is enhanced by a metamagic feat that adds another effect still ignore magic resistance?
The hand that rolls the Dice rules the world.

Offline Malchia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2016, 01:42:16 PM »
Should the spell, when it is enhanced by a metamagic feat that adds another effect still ignore magic resistance?
Yes

Offline Zunder

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1644
  • no one is youer then you
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2016, 02:48:37 PM »
Should the spell, when it is enhanced by a metamagic feat that adds another effect still ignore magic resistance?


Might make it too powerful. 

Offline Malchia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2016, 03:17:30 PM »
Might make it too powerful.
That's the whole point of adding metamagic.  Why be penalized for enhancing a spell?  A fortified spell should be more powerful, not weaker.  Besides, this is a magic missile we're talking about.  Granted, it's very potent for a low level spell, but it's easily thwarted by a 1st level shield spell or a brooch of shielding. 

Offline Windblade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1453
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2016, 10:26:15 PM »
The whole idea about magic missile ignoring SR comes from the fact that magic missiles on Habololy are considering pure magic and nothing can stop them because it is pure untouched magic.  Therefore we decided no SR.  Once you add in metamagic feats especially ones that entangle and enervate then you disrupt this "pure magic"  and therefore SR should now apply.  Metamagic feats would not really be "down powered" on a magic missile they would just work as normal per the rules of the game.  We would only apply the "habololy rule" to normal magic missiles for the reason I stated above.  Asinjin correct me if I am wrong about the whole reason we made magic missiles ignore SR to begin with.

Online Hero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2016, 10:53:46 PM »
By that logic, any spell that ignores SR and is enhanced by a metamagic feat should follow the same rule.

The Orb of X line of spells ignore SR because they create a bit of non-magical element rather than a magical energy effect (like most evocation spells). Does a maximized Orb of X make it susceptible to SR?

This is a slippery slope. I vote no.

Offline Windblade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1453
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2016, 11:04:57 PM »
It would only apply to magic missile because we modified magical missile from its original state anyway so I don't think there is a slippery slope at all.  There were be no reason to even look at any other spells.   Also most spells that ignore SR have nothing to do with the theory that is presented for magic missiles.  The spells that ignore SR usually are conjuration and conjuration magic typically opens some sort of portal gate etc bringing a real object into being.  Therefore when you are effected by the real object there would be no SR.

Offline Asinjin

  • DM
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9390
    • View Profile
    • Habololy
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2016, 11:17:12 PM »
I would not want to divide out spells, but I think you could make a case for certain metamagic feats altering all spells that normally ignore SR.
The hand that rolls the Dice rules the world.

Offline Asinjin

  • DM
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9390
    • View Profile
    • Habololy
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #8 on: December 26, 2016, 03:09:30 PM »
Still up for debate: should magic missile and other spells that normally ignore SR be subject to SR if a 'fancy' metamagic feat is applied.  Examples of these metamagic feats are:

- Exploding
- Entangling
- Fell Drain
- Forceful

Another possibility is that we add to these feats that a target's SR must be overcome for the purpose of the feat effect only.

So the choices are:

1 - no change, these feats and the spell they are attached to ignore SR

2 - if a spell that ignores SR has one of these feats applied, the target's SR applies to the spell and feat

3 - a spell that has one of these feats atteched ignores SR, but the feat attached must overcome SR to apply
The hand that rolls the Dice rules the world.

Offline Malchia

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2050
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #9 on: December 26, 2016, 03:27:19 PM »
Still up for debate: should magic missile and other spells that normally ignore SR be subject to SR if a 'fancy' metamagic feat is applied.  Examples of these metamagic feats are:

- Exploding
- Entangling
- Fell Drain
- Forceful

Another possibility is that we add to these feats that a target's SR must be overcome for the purpose of the feat effect only.

So the choices are:

1 - no change, these feats and the spell they are attached to ignore SR

2 - if a spell that ignores SR has one of these feats applied, the target's SR applies to the spell and feat

3 - a spell that has one of these feats atteched ignores SR, but the feat attached must overcome SR to apply
I vote for choice #1.

Online Hero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #10 on: December 26, 2016, 04:12:10 PM »

Offline Valdis

  • Magnanamous
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1003
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #11 on: December 27, 2016, 08:23:47 AM »

Offline Asinjin

  • DM
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9390
    • View Profile
    • Habololy
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #12 on: December 29, 2016, 12:03:57 PM »
I vote #3.

Still looking for Terrorshard, Whitesword, Windblade, and Zunder to vote.
The hand that rolls the Dice rules the world.

Online Hero

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2403
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #13 on: December 29, 2016, 03:52:25 PM »
3 - a spell that has one of these feats atteched ignores SR, but the feat attached must overcome SR to apply
If you go this route I think it also should apply to any metamagic feat. For instance, to get maximize to apply you need to make an SR check otherwise it just deals normal damage. Increased damage output is no different than a debuffing effect.

I'm still voting for #1.

Offline Windblade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1453
    • View Profile
Re: Magic Missile
« Reply #14 on: December 29, 2016, 09:22:50 PM »
I vote 3.