Rule Discussion

[Asinjin]

Should a player be able to cast a spell in the prep round(s) on himself which effects the area around him, so that at the beginning of the duel, because of the starting distance, his opponent is immediately in the area of effect of the spell?

Example: Control Temperature, or raise the temperature around you in the prep round to a very high level, and you are immune to heat.  Your opponent, starting 15 feet away, is immediately caught in the heat and is not immune.

Discuss...

[Windblade]

I assumed this was already a rule since it was in our 2nd edition rules.  However, since it isn't a rule at this point I think we really need to implement it.  If not then there are just way too many ways to abuse this and create unwinable starting scenarios for your opponent. 

[Malchia]

Windblade has the right idea.  Anything that basically forces an opponent to make a save the instant a round begins is unfair.  Someone could potentially win without even winning initiative.   

[Asinjin]

Master Po can't post right now, but he wanted me to pass this thought along:

A light spell effects the area beyond your starting square.  You could potentially fight an opponent that light has a bad effect on (a drow for example).  Can you then not cast light in preparation?

[Windblade]

Master Po can't post right now, but he wanted me to pass this thought along:

A light spell effects the area beyond your starting square.  You could potentially fight an opponent that light has a bad effect on (a drow for example).  Can you then not cast light in preparation?

I think the answer would be no if the light spell harms people. However, this circumstance is extremely rare when this would matter especially in our tournament where there aren't any Drow and the purpose of the rulel is protect us from unbalancing situations in our tournament.  However, I can break it down a bit anyway.

1.  Drow being higher level.  This situation would only occur in the rounds that were random since no one would pick a dark area while fighting a Drow.  Unless it was beneficial to them in which case that wouldn't cast light anyway because they wanted it to be dark.

2. If the Drow were lower level then they would have to happen to craft a scenario were this particular thing would impede them.  Again unlikely but more possible then in the above scenario.

So I would hate to make a rule based on this particular case especially when in this case it will likely not matter most of the time anyway.  So I think for the sake of abusing this rule with other spells then the light spell would have to be prohibited in rounds where it effects other people immediately.  Same for any other spells.  You can cast control temperature in the prep round as long as the opponent didn't start in the effected area.

[Asinjin]

So can you place your opponent in a dark place, where you have darkvision, and if you start within 15 feet, your opponent can't cast light because it would effect you?

[Asinjin]

Would a possible solution be to allow these spells to be cast, but allow a person caught in it a saving throw where it would normally not be allowed?

THe same concept holds for a summoned creature and a magic circle.  If the creature is within the range of the circle when it is cast, it gets a save to ignore the effect of getting pushed out.

[Windblade]

I don't like the idea of modify spells like that.  It is a slippery slope.

[whitesword]

I would not allow spells that modify the setting in the prep rounds. If you could do that you could theoretically force your opponent to make saves before the fight ever starts.

[Asinjin]

If there is a round with an odd number of characters, the highest ranked character gets a bye.

Question: Should that character have the option (opponent unknown) of choosing to pass up the bye in order to get it in a later round?

[whitesword]

If there is a round with an odd number of characters, the highest ranked character gets a bye.

Question: Should that character have the option (opponent unknown) of choosing to pass up the bye in order to get it in a later round?

No

[Windblade]

No

[Valdis]

No

[Windblade]

Another rules question I thought of that would be worth discussing.  We have a house rule right now that a person is not flat footed if they lose initiative.  Not a rule I agree with but it is already settled so that is fine.  However, this has a consequence that I think we should change.  Normally you cannot use an immediate action if your are flat flooted. This prevents someone from casting an immediate action spell if they lose initiative.  Since we got rid of flat footedness based on initiative, a spellcaster can now cast an immediate action spell even if they lose initiative.  I think being able to cast a spell on your opponents turn when you lose initiative is too powerful and skews the field even more towards casters, which is already a problem to begin with.  I think we should not allow immediate action spells in the 1st round if you lose initiative.  Of course as always the DM could cut this conversation short and make a ruling but I think it is worth discussing.

[Asinjin]

I won't cut the conversation.  We have ruled in the past, specifically for the Suian and Tyrogatorian competitions that because it is a setting where both opponents clearly know they are in a dangerous situation and wouldn't be caught flat footed since they would be aware of danger and alert immediately.

I held that ruling over from the Suian and Tyrogatorian tournaments, and it has already be used in this tournament and it will come up again, so it is not an irrelevant debate.