Habololy Forum
House Rules => Massive Damage => Topic started by: Asinjin on August 24, 2011, 02:48:46 PM
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Let's discuss.
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Can you summarize the current set of rules?
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If a medium sized creature takes 40 or more points of damage from one physical attack, the creature must make a DC15 Fortitude saving throw or die. For every five points over 40, the save increase by 1. So a medium sized creature that takes 100 hit points from one attack must make a DC27 Fortitude saving throw. For every size category larger than medium, the amount of damage required to cause a massive damage save is increased by 10. It is reduced by 10 for every size category smaller than medium, to a minimum of 20 points of damage.
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Ok, well, I had this long drawn-out explanation about how it's pretty ridiculous that a 5th level character with a Greatsword, power attack, and leap attack can cause up to Gargantuan sized creatures to make a massive Damage save on a critical hit (it is referred to as 'Koth-ing' and/or 'Acyll-ing' in the rest of this post). Koth-ing will do between 11.8% and 36% of a Gargantuan creatures total hit points worth of damage. I was ok with 33+% of your total Hit Points causing a massive damage save, but 12%, not so much. It would be like dying because someone shot you in the ass with a b-b gun.
Then I though about it some more. What about a blanket 50% of your hp forces the save? Sounds, ok. But in practice, you'd be making those saves left and right, especially at lower levels. a 5th level fighter has an average of 30 hit points, so every time he takes more than 15 points of damage from an attack he would have to make a save. That's a pretty low threshold, especially when his fotitude bonus is only +4.
I think that the rule is fine the way it is, but maybe add a bonus to the saving throw if the total damage done, that causes the save, is less than 50% of your total hit points
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Considering I've lost 3 characters to this rule, it's stupid and should be taken out.
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How about a compromise. Massive damage saves should only be allowed for Critical Hits, or something gets cut off (vorpal/sharpness). To me, that makes sense. If you shot a giant in the bum with a arrow, he shouldn't be able to die, especially if he's got 400 hp. However if you shoot him in the kidney (critical) then it makes sense.
I think the rule whatever it is, needs to change. % doesn't work cause of low levels, or people with a ton of hp.
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So how about making it so a failed massive damage save causes you to drop to -1 hp instead of insta-death? At higher levels where you should easily be able to make a DC 15 Fort save, a 5% chance of going unconscious is much more palatable than a 5% chance of dying.
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What about keeping the current rule, but making it so that a 1 does not automatically fail. That means that at high levels, when your Fortitude save is +14 or higher, you have no chance of missing the save.
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Since it is our rule I feel it is ok to make a little complicated to fit our needs. How about you don't automatically miss on a 1. Also if the hit does more then 50% of your HP then you die if your miss your save. If the hit does less then 50% of your HP but still causes you to make a massive damage save then you are only reduced to -1.
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Since it is our rule I feel it is ok to make a little complicated to fit our needs. How about you don't automatically miss on a 1. Also if the hit does more then 50% of your HP then you die if your miss your save. If the hit does less then 50% of your HP but still causes you to make a massive damage save then you are only reduced to -1.
I like that!
Even though it wouldn't have saved any of my characters.
Or.. you get reduced to -1 unless a critical was involved. Then you die.
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So same rules for what triggers the save. Eliminate the auto fail on a 1. If the attack does under 50% of your remaining hit points, than you are not killed, but rather knocked out.
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Using 50% of your remaining hp will make it pretty cumbersome. I think it should be 50% of your total hp.
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I agree with hero and that is what intended to say with my post although I didn't make it clear.
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I am in favor of changing what triggers the save but I am not sure what would work best. I am also ok with testing out the new rule and see if meets our needs.
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So same rules for what triggers the save. Eliminate the auto fail on a 1. If the attack does under 50% of your remaining hit points, than you are not killed, but rather knocked out.
This sounds good to me. I like tom's suggestion to test it out to see if it works in game. With Drew DMing, i'm pretty sure we'll get a chance to test it out.....often
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A reminder that we are using the new massive damage rules. Same trigger as before, a roll of 1 does not auto fail, if you lose under 50% of your total base hp, you are knocked unconscious, not killed.
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I've done a little thinking about this...
I also believe that the damage should all be of the same type. Meaning Physical. e.g. If a weapon is poisoned which adds damage it should require a save....
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I realize I'm very late to this party so my opinion has probably been forfeited but I think the 50% and no fail on a 1 is too weak. I would keep the point structure by size category and switch to no auto fail on a one. If you want to go w the 50% rule the save DC should go way up to reflect the amount of damage done.
Just my 2 cents
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Since this came up this season, I wanted to list what the rule currently is in its entirety.
- Massive damage save is caused when a creature takes an amount of damage for one source of one type.
- The amount of damage is based on the size of the creature. 40 for medium, and up or down 10 for every size category, to a minimum of 10.
- The DC of the save is 10 plus 1 for every 5 points of damage above the amount needed to cause the save.
- Only physical non magical damage can cause a massive damage save.
- A failed save where the damage was more than half of your maximum hp causes death.
- A failed save where the damage was less than half of your maximum hp causes unconsciousness at -1 hp.
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If anyone has any objections, speak now or forever hold your peace. I will lock the topic in a week.